LM 30 or 32 in Puget Sound?

[putnamehere]

Hi, I just registered for this forum and elected to jump right in with a post without reading what great information no doubt awaits for my evening reading.  I've liked the LM 32 for a long time and have sought info over the years.  We're finally to the point where we're looking for a pilothouse boat with decent sailing performance.  The hard part is finding any in the Puget Sound area.  I know of one (not sure if it's the 30 or 32) in Winslow, Bainbridge Island but I didn't have any luck contacting the owner.  If there's anyone around that wouldn't mind a quick visit, I'd sure appreciate it.  If so, any pics and info up front will be appreciated.

In the meantime, does the forward visibility seem adequate when in the helm seat?

Has anyone sailed much from the interior helm?  With all the rain we get in the NW and even some sun in late summer, handling from the inside helm is appealing.

I've read an older Practical Sailor review which was mostly favorable.  When motoring or sailing from the cockpit, do you mostly stand and look over or sit and look through and around the pilothouse? 

Years ago, I tracked down the importer/dealer in the mid west.  He's a very nice guy that sent me literature on the boat even though he was out of the business by then.  I'll have to dig it out, now that we've started looking.

I'm curious what other boats owners looked at and really considered before buying their LM.

There are two for sale in the US on yachtworld, one in MI and one in R.I.  I think both have a cracked forward hatch.   Is the hatch a common size for easy replacement or may the hatch window material just be replaced?  Is this common to the LM boats?

www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Lm-32-3020133/Whitehall/MI/United-States

www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Lm-32-2889008/RI/United-States

Is there anything you'd change on your boats (mainly the 30 and 32)?

If buying again, would you buy an LM again?

Thanks.

[stevespring]

Welcome.

First off, I can't help much with questions specific to the 32, but I'm sure others with experience of it will chime in. I do however own a 27 and sail it in the rainy place of Scotland, so can answer in general terms about sailing an LM in those types of conditions.

If it looks like it will stay dry, the canopy gets folded away and I steer from the tiller in the cockpit. For decent visibility ahead I sometimes stand up and wedge myself in the corner of the cockpit. I am looking into making up 2 small corner seat pads, raised higher than the existing cockpit locker tops, which would allow me to sit in the corners and still be able to see ahead. (I'm 5' 9" tall by the way).

If it's raining then I usually roll up the side and rear 'windows' of the canopy and still sail from the cockpit, unless the rain is really bouncing down. Then I will sail from the pilot house, in which I have a heater outlet for the Eberspacher heater and a windscreen wiper. What I would like to add to the inside helm is a seat with a side arm, as when on starboard tack I sometimes feel like I might fall off the seat...

I quite often have the tiller pilot steering (linked to the chart plotter to steer to a waypoint, so I am really only attending to sail trim and keeping watch. I also put one of the cockpit cushions on top of the covered galley area to allow me (or a crew member if there is one) to sit inside on the port side.

This may or may not be helpful to you, but I think most of the models have at least similar layouts and likely the same plus and minus points. The 32 (fin / bilge? keel) will sail better than the 27 (long shallow keel).

I would certainly endorse this style of boat for areas that are cool and wet...

[oceandancer]

Hi Putnamehere and welcome to LM Owners.

The secure and sheltered wheelhouse is really the big advantage of the all weather LM marque and really does allow decent handling from the inside helm position. This is mostly true when motoring but sailing from inside the wheelhouse is perfectly possible under a wide range of conditions The only visibility issue is when you are well heeled to starboard. With the wheel being on that side your view to port will obviously become restricted as the port side of the boat rises up. In this case you will need to stand when keeping watch to port from the wheelhouse helm position. You will find that under these conditions you will naturally look through the port wheelhouse windows unless you are very tall as the view from the overhead hatch will also become restricted.

On the LM32 the genoa winches and mainsail controls are all readily at hand within the cockpit but not accessible from the helm position. You would have to go into the cockpit to trim the sails but this is no problem if the boat is under some form of autopilot.

When I am single or short handing, like Stevespring, I am usually on autopilot and will be sail trimming and watchkeeping rather than constant hands on helming.
If you're not using an autopilot you may well need to correct course whilst moving from one position to the other but no problem, the original LM brochure makes a feature of the tiller which can be easily disconnected from the helm; well I have talked to a few LM owners and I have yet to find one who actually does this. There is very little drag imposed by having the tiller connected and as far as I'm concerned they can stay permanently connected to provide dual helming positions so when moving into the cockpit the tiller is there if you need to correct the course.

The LM32 ans LM30 both have good forward visibility when seated in the cockpit, unlike the LM27 and of course they both have dual seating in the wheelhouse.

I have owned my LM27 for 23 years and I am still very happy with it. You will hear some other sailors say that they do not like the idea of "sailing while looking though all that glass", but how many do you see sailing through old plastic sprayhoods! quite a few - I know I would much rather have solid, toughened, clean windows and a useful secure wheelhouse in which to weather our often unsettled british summer! Pragmatic it may be but I love it to bits.

Regards

Mick Legg

[putnamehere]

Thanks so much for your replies. I'm glad to hear you're both pleased with your boats. I also would prefer glass over dodger plastic windows. My brother has a 30 foot cat yawl with lee-boards (but has them removed). It has a raised saloon with forward facing windows but no inside steering. We've used an autopilot remote while sitting on cushions on the galley counter top. I'd forgotten about that until you mentioned doing the same. I like the sliding/dual helm seat setup. Some of the pilothouse models we've been aboard have poor visibility forward. I think my wife would have to stand on a box to see out of a couple of them. Puget Sound is fairly protected so other than a short, steep chop the main issue is beating to windward. The winds usually run lengthwise to the sound so we're mostly running or beating with occasional short reaches. While there's a fair amount of motoring when cruising due to light winds, having a boat that can sail well to windward would be a definite plus. I'd still like to have a boat that would be a fun afternoon/evening daysailer which the LM30/32 looks like it could be.

Practical Sailor mentioned limited access to the stern steering assembly. Have you had to get back into that area and if so, how'd it go?

[stevespring]

I have the tiller pilot remote control set up next to the inside helm, so that whether I'm inside the pilot house or in the cockpit, I am never more than a few feet away from the controls.

The LM 27 which is the model that Mick and myself sail is a different beast below the waterline than the 30 / 32. We have long, shallow keels and a genoa sheeting position that is quite far outboard, so the 27 isn't a great boat to windward. I find myself tacking through about 100 degrees and when hard on the wind, making a fair bit of leeway. It still makes ok ground to weather, just not as good as my previous boat (but makes up in other ways!).

The 32 is more of a proper modern design sailing boat with a pilot house. As such she will be better to windward. I would have loved a 30, but finances won't allow it....!

Nonetheless, if the wind is 10 knots apparent or upward, and as long as I'm in no great rush to get somewhere, I will sail rather than motor. The area where I sail is the Firth of Clyde, with many sea lochs branching off, and the wind always seems to be on the nose as it funnels around the land, so there is a lot of beating to be done.

There are no issues getting o the stern steering assembly on the 27, but I don't know what the set up is on the 30 / 32.

[putnamehere]

I just looked up a map for Firth of Clyde. Looks like a great place to sail and probably can get pretty rough. I think I'll be in a similar position where if the wind is decent, we'll sail unless in a hurry or tired and just want to make it to our destination. I found the information packet the US importer (Anchor Marine) mailed to me 20 years ago. The sheets are all black and white copies of brochures. If you think anyone would be interested, I could scan and post them on this site. They're mainly for the 30 and 32 but reference the 28 and I think the other styles, too. I assume I'd post it to the folder, Basic info on LM 22, LM 24, etc?

[Sula]

Dec 17, 2017 1:34:31 GMT putnamehere said:

I found the information packet the US importer (Anchor Marine) mailed to me 20 years ago. The sheets are all black and white copies of brochures. If you think anyone would be interested, I could scan and post them on this site. They're mainly for the 30 and 32 but reference the 28 and I think the other styles, too. I assume I'd post it to the folder, Basic info on LM 22, LM 24, etc?

I think there would be people interested in seeing those.

Adding it to the thread "Basic Info on LM22 etc.' would seem appropriate as it would keep all that sort of info together and easier to find at a later date.

[Chris Wood]

Hi, LM 30 Steering

On the subject of access to the steering of an LM 30 / 32 : I believe they are similar -I recently replaced the steering cable (Ultraflex) on my LM 30 - access is not easy but if the cockpit table is removed to allow some access to the rudder head that helps a lot. If you are nimble (or know someone who is) it is possible to wriggle up into the stern from the aft half of the engine bay / locker - it is a two man job with someone topsides to pass tools & hold a spanner but there are ways! - hope that helps. Also ,for what it is worth, I am very happy with my LM 30 but next on my wish list is a second engine control; near the tiller to make coming alongside easier when short handed. The pilot house / wheel steering  is great in poor weather but having dual engine control should ensure the best of both worlds!   Best Wishes;

[putnamehere]

Great comment Chrisw w, I just assumed engine controls were in the cockpit. I agree that they would be very helpful.

I'm glad you like the 30. I don't know if I would notice much of a difference between that and the 32.

[putnamehere]

Does anyone have and thoughts on these two LM 32's for sale in Michigan and Rhode Island? They both appear to have cracked forward hatches. Is that typical? Any pros and cons on these boats?

Whitehall, Michigan www.yachtworld.com/boats/1986/Lm-32-3020133/Whitehall/MI/United-States

Rhode Island www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Lm-32-2889008/RI/United-States

I also like the Southerly line of boats. Any pros and cons on these or comparisons to the LM?

Wisconsin www.yachtworld.com/boats/1990/Southerly-115-3082265/Racine/WI/United-States

Florida www.yachtworld.com/boats/1985/Southerly-100-Pilot-House-2594351/Daytona-Beach/FL/United-States

Thanks.

[putnamehere]

I've seen an LM 30 or 32 at the main marina in Winslow, Bainbridge Island but have not been able to contact him through the marina. Does anyone know of the boat or the owner? It'd be a great opportunity to go aboard one for the first time. Here are some pics.

photos.app.goo.gl/T9fj6BrSR72uYgxA3

[motomike]

I own a 1985 LM32, sailing Lake Superior out of Bayfield, WI. We’ve owned Undercover for over 20 years, and find her ideally suited for the sort of sailing conditions commonly found on the Great Lakes. The 32 would be perfect for your waters; we’ve chartered in the San Juan’s and were struck with how well suited Undercover would be in that area.

Shortcomings include having an inadequately sized holding tank, and (as another responder mentioned) it would be great to have a set of engine controls in the cockpit. Neither issues are dealbreakers, IMO.

As for the cracked hatch question: I had to replace the large sliding hatch over the wheelhouse, which had cracked completely in half. I was having no luck in the US finding anyone who would fabricate a replica, but ended up finding one from a guy in Denmark (Jesper Petersen), thanks to some info I found searching the archives on this site. 10 days and a wire transfer later I had a new hatch. I would guess he would have the other size hatches for the 32, as well. Amazing the things one can buy with a cell phone!

Good luck!

Mike

[putnamehere]

Hi Motomike. Looks like I haven't checked this site for a couple of months. Thanks for your reply. That's very interesting that you were able to find the part you needed overseas. Good to know.

I assume you haven't seen the LM32 for sale in Whitehall, WI since it's a couple hundred miles from Bayfield?

I would think the LM would be a great boat for out her in the land of all day drizzle. Do you find the galley area big enough for normal short duration cruising?

Does the inside slide out double helm seat work pretty well?

Do you normally look around the pilothouse when sailing?

About how tall is the pilothouse cabin top from the cockpit sole? I'm curious how tall one needs to be to see over or if a raised platform is necessary.

Do you have a feel for what typical production boats from the 70's, 80's or 90's are in the same speed range as your boat? How's the lighter wind performance?

I'd consider buying from your area if you hear of any for sale.

I'd love to see some pics of your boat.

Thanks.