Fresh Water Flush for head

[chrismunson]

Has anyone made this conversion? Seems easy enough with appropriate back flow precautions. The advantage of fresh water is the odor and stain problem is reduced. With a 55 gallon tank, my LM32 actually holds too much water for short sails, and the flush would help with cycling the water through. This article in Sail Magazine explains how do this for both electric and manual heads. Would appreciate any comments, am considering this for a winter project.

www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-freshwater-flushing-for-electric-toilets

[Sula]

I have not done such a conversion.

As I understand it, the smell 'problem' (such as it is) with sea water is that when the boat is not in use, the various tiny organisms in the sea water remaining in the pipework die off, and as they decay give off a smell. As a result, the first flush or two may smell, but after that (or if the boat is in continuous use) there should be no smell.

You'll find lots of sporadic discussion about this on various boat forums (e.g. YBW 'Practical Boat Owner' and 'Yachting Monthly Scuttlebutt'). Some people just just live with it; some people (like me) pump through the smelly 'standing' contents of the pipes with fresh seawater when they first get back to the boat; some people flush through some fresh water before they leave the boat (bit trickier to achieve for the inlet pipe) but otherwise use seawater; others buy filters which go on the inlet; some use freshwater, as you propose; etc.  

The other thing to note is that flexible hose is slightly porous, and the toilet outlet pipework will eventually smell whatever you flush with. There is no cure for this except replacing that pipework. (Special sanitation hose will last significantly longer before leaching smells.)

There is an American woman who is an expert on all this and other boat smells: Peggy Hall, also known as 'the Headmistress' (geddit?)!  She published has published books on the subject, e.g. 'The New Get Rid of Boat Odors: A Boat Owner’s Guide to Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor'  (Seaworthy Publications).

Personally, I've never found the smell a serious problem. (I did once think I had a smelly heads problem - that's how I came to research the above - but it turned out the smell was caused by a failing battery in the bank behind the heads (non-LM boat).)

If a freshwater flush conversion is done, it's vital that backflow prevention arrangements you mention are absolutely reliable.

I'm not familiar with any 'stain' problem with seawater flushing.  Could you clarify what this is? 

[chrismunson]

The stain is the residue ring in the bottom of the bowl when sea water evaporates. I agree with your comments, and thank you. Many sailors don't realize the smell is rotting organisms, and they dose the holding tank with perfumed chemicals, and the result is even worse as it kills the digesting bacteria in the tank. The expensive white head hose is worth it, mine has been in 17 years now.

[pengwyn]

freshwater toilets at sea - inadaequate exaggeration or essential need?
(or: does a bio-humoristic approach help to address problems)

from time to time (and before leaving the boat for a couple of days) put one or two 'denture cleaner tablets' into the toilet (do not flush immediately). This will reduce odour and stains in the piping and will probably keep teeth of sharks shiny and clean and works with seawater as well (do not use the harsh and toxic chemicals which are used on land).

from the environmentalists point of view, such tablets which people usually bring into direct contact with artefacts to be put in the mouth, are very unlikelely to act as toxines in the environment - in contrast, wasting freshwater to get rid of metabolic waste at sea, sounds like a 'political idea'. Using freshwater for such a purpose on dry land in some areas is known a waste of precious ressorces - at sea its probably even more 'inadaequate'.(in our century you know what 'political idea' stands for).

dealing with odour and stains from bacterial activity requires to feed the unwanted, smelly bacteria to other microorganisms, which will subsequently serve as food for larger organisms which might finally end up as a nice and delicious fish - just to start over again ;-). live on earth is scheduled to go in 'eternal' circles and nothing is really 'waste' as someone (or some microbes) will be running a 'business modell' based just on that waste - provided we do not spoil the 'eternal circle' of compounds by toxic compounds, pharmaceuticals which might alter someones metabolism or radioactive waste (which is unlikely to be found on a LM, which are mostly lacking a nuclear reactor for propulsion purposes).

Using inadaequate amounts of natural ressources (e.g. using freshwater to flush faeces, killing complete sharks only to eat the fins (no, you will not improve your virility by eating stiff objects - it's just a waste of money and a proof of impaired intellectual capacity induced by x-chromosomes), will also bring severe issues to eternal circles of biological recycling.

What do you think, happened to the billions of 'dog piles'from fish and other lifeforms in the seas and elsewhere in the past billions of years? Now the 'civilised' portion of mankind seems to be ashamed of the physiological fact, that we are just some strange animals, which also produce faeces, like dolphins,donkeys and deer. But instead of ignoring facts, we should try a smart re-integration into the biosphere - preventig bad odour but without killing our environment, so we can cruise the seas with our LM's almost forever ;-) .


regards

PenGwyn

[chrismunson]

Do the tablets come in lemon flavor?

[neil whittaker LM 27 Swansong]

I have had a freshwater flush in to the holding tank , then only pumping out to the sea or via a pump out station, for the past three years 
we spend three to four mouths on the boat each summer sailing from  the UK to Denmark and Sweden via The Netherlands 
I fill the fresh water tank about every five days 
No smell but we do add some porta pottie additive , the blue stuff 

[Sula]

Neil Whitaker - Where is the holding tank located in your LM27?

[neil whittaker]

under the floor just by the galley 


I use a tank from Teck Tanks 

I do not remember how many lt it good for about three days in port more if you use the shore toilet