LM27 New sails

[oceandancer]

Hi All,

I thought you may like to see a pic of Ocean Dancer with new sails by Crusader.

I have their Furl Max Plus mainsail  featuring a mix of short leech and full length carbon fibre battens and the largest crosscut genoa you can fit on an LM27 which for reference is 16ft 4in on the foot.

 

The sheeting point for the full genoa is with the car right back as aft as it will go. This gives a very nice shape and more sail area parallel with the boat to produce more drive close hauled. I've not yet fully tested the sails in all conditions but they seem to have improved performance and pointing in light airs significantly, however my last 21 year old mainsail was all sorts of shapes when viewed on the lee side!

Crusader made my sails in 3 weeks and delivered them to the boat. As  precaution I took my old sails to them to be pegged out in their loft so I knew the new sails would fit.

I'm told Father Christmas is bringing me new fender socks!

Happy Christmas to all

Mick Legg

[Sula]

They look very smart, Mick! Let us know how you find they compare to your old ones when you've tried them out a bit.

Do you happen to know the luff and leech lengths of either your new or your old genoa? I have a bigger one than your new one 'borrowed' from another boat - too long in the luff, really, but better condition than my LM one, and it also has foam luff. I'm toying with the idea of having it cut down to suit, but don't know the best triangular proportions. (I'm not sure of the provenance of the one that came with the boat.)

[oceandancer]

Hi Sula,

First of all my mast is 9.81 m which, according to Z Spars, is the standard height for the LM27.

The 150% Genoa Luff was 30ft (9.14m) Leech was 28ft 9in ( 8.76 m) and the foot 15ft (4.5 m)
The 170% Genoa Luff is 30ft (9.14m) Leech is 31ft (9.44m) foot is 16ft 4in ( 4.96m)

To be on the safe side I think you ought to hoist the new genoa and attach the tack by a piece of rope to near the deck ( or even just hold it down by hand) to see how much shorter you want it and also look at the cut at the clew end. The LM27 is fairly high cut and the angle at the clew is important to get the right sheeting point which should bisect the angle as near as possible.

I have a foam luff on my new Genoa. Crusader say that it gives a tidier roll, I haven't really noticed much difference from my old sail.

Regards

Mick

[Sula]

Thanks, Mick. Very useful.

I have hoisted, and sailed with, the 'borrowed' sail on Sula. With the clew as low as possible - too low for best forward vision and clearing guard rails - the head is so high the halyard lead is at about 45 degrees, not so good for the roller foil, I think, and I can only just get enough tension on the luff. I also thinks it looks too close to the main at the head. It sails well enough, though, and the lead to the clew seems roughly right (I haven't investigated closely at various points of sail).

I'll try to measure up what I've got for comparison. (Tricky to do in small house, but its wet and muddy outside!)

As I understand it the point of a foam luff is not so much tidiness, as reducing the amount of bagginess in the sail as its furled. Ideally, the more wind there is, the flatter sail wanted, but with roller reefing it tends to get baggier the more its furled, and a foam luff reduces that effect.

Thanks again.

John

[Sula]

I've at long last been able to measure up my sails to compare with yours, and it raises some interesting questions.  (Note that all my measurements below are approximate - it was a bit hurried in a breezy garden!)

As you say, mast length is critical (among other things).  I don't have measurements to hand, but I seem to recall mine as about 10m, so that seems to tally with the 9.8m that Z-spars told you.

However, I don't think I could carry a 9.14m luff roller genoa.  The genoa I got with Sula has a 8.57m luff, and the roller genoa I have 'borrowed' from another, ('project') boat of mine (not an LM) has an 8.9m luff and is too long - I can't fully tension the luff because the halyard lead (via a turning block on the mast to prevent halyard wrap) is (currently) too aftwards at that height.  I can perhaps address that when the mast is taken down for another reason in a few weeks' time, but already the genoa looks too close to the main at the top for good airflow.

I notice, too, that both your old and new genoas areas (if I've calculated them correctly) are at the extremes of what is available as standard for the LM27 from Resen Sails, who list various sizes for the LM27 (and other LMs), and at those sorts of sizes, which are for hank-on light weather genoas, they use lighter cloth which wouldn't be suitable for a roller genoa.      resensails.eu/sail-prices-lm-27

I've put the sizes of the various foresails - yours, mine and Resen Sails - in the following table for comparison.  (How legible this will be I'm not sure - I've been struggling with inserting the image the way I want it, and may have to improve it later.)  The areas quoted for yours and mine I've calculated (with less than 100% confidence!). The Resen Sails areas are the ones they quote, together with the ranges available as options, but they do not state luff, leech or foot lengths.



P.S.  The genoa in my Avatar pic is my old one, but very much reefed down.  (It was breezier than it looks, and I couldn't easily reef the main as I'd intended because the lines had jammed. Why is it only when one's sails look a mess anyone gets a camera out?  )  

[oceandancer]

Hi John,
I will check the dimensions with Crusader and get back to you.

Mick

[chrismunson]

Mike, How are the new sails working out? Have you had a chance to check performance, pointing, etc.? Am thinking of new sails for my LM32. Chris

[Sula]

Feb 9, 2020 10:03:11 GMT oceandancer said:

Hi John,
I will check the dimensions with Crusader and get back to you.

Mick

Mick,

I don't doubt the dimensions you gave previously.  Nor do I draw any particular conclusions about the issues raised: I'm just curious!  

You were obviously looking for the largest genoa you could carry, so that tallies with how your sail size relates to what Resen Sails are offering.

As I can't afford a new genoa, I was pondering whether it would be worth having my 'borrowed' genoa (which is nearly new) cut down, and if so to what area (% overlap), and what would that require in terms of relative luff/leech/foot dimensions.   I wasn't sure before, and I'm still not sure now!    My old genoa is quite usable, but doesn't have a UV protection strip, and it's a minor nuisance fitting and removing its protective sleeve before/after sailing.   

Having collated some info, I thought it might be of interest to other LM27 owners at some point.

[Brian & Glenda]

Hello Sula,
You could have a UV protection strip sewn onto your existing genoa if it is indeed 'quite useable' (I had mine extended with the addition of another 6" of cloth, as the existing protection did not cover all of the sail when it was loosely furled) or: There was an article in January's "Practical Sailor" (link below) about painting a UV protection strip onto roller furled sails. The article is titled: The Case of the Painted Jib. Their 'Best Choice' paint is "Marine Shield" but other conventional paints also performed quite well.

www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/the-case-of-the-painted-jib

[oceandancer]

Hi John,
I really din't quite know what to expect from the new sails but the overall effect has been surprisingly good. The boat seems far more willing and points higher. I had some initial furling problems but those have all now disappeared and the larger Genoa is working out well. In light airs(5-6 knts)we easily managed half wind speed and more. When the wind is higher I just put a few rolls in and its back to the old size up to about 18knts when I tend to reef both sails together.

Mick

[Sula]

Hi Mick,

I've just found the measurements I made of my rig when I first got the boat. These say my mast is 9.71m, which is 10cm shorter than yours. I was robbed!

The mast is due to be taken down shortly, so I'll check again.

John