Self draining cockpit

[maurice]

I have an Lm27 and would like to know if it has a self draining cockpit and if so , how it works. Regards Maurice.

[Charles]

Yes, there is a self-draining cockpit Maurice. If you lift the floorboards over the engine compartment you will find a deep groove round the outside with a connecting groove across the centre; in the middle of that connecting groove is the entry to a drain pipe which runs out via a sea cock. It doesn't look very grand, but it is perfectly adequate for the job. All the maintenance that is required is periodic cleaning out of the grooves and exercising of the sea cock, which must be left open at all times, whether or not you are on board.
Charles

[Sula]

Is yours a Mark 2, Charles?

I am fairly sure that the Mark 1 LM27 does not have a self draining cockpit.  

I am sure I read, before I bought the boat, that LM27s weren't self-draining, and I haven't had the boat long or specifically investigated this issue, but do not recognise your description of grooves, and I've never found the seacock you mention (where is it?). 

Rain and spray drains into the bilge on the Mk1, as far as I can see.  In any case, as neither Mk1 or Mk2 has a bridge deck any serious amount of water (wave over the stern, etc.) would, I imagine, largely run straight down into the boat interior, and partly through the 'air intake' opening behind the table in the stern and into the bilge

My take on it is that it's not a boat to be out in the ultimate storm, but it seems to work in practice for the coastal sailing it's designed for.  





  

[maurice]

Thank you, Charles and Sula for your replies. My boat is a mk2 1985 model and I have never noticed the grooves you refer too but I will have another look. Regards Maurice.

[Charles]

Mine's a Mk 1 Sula, and it looks and operates exactly as I have described - I wouldn't have written that otherwise. Other boats may be different, but that's how Marguerite was built and how she works. Although we have had some appreciable seas coming from all directions I have never experienced anything approaching a flood in the cockpit, possibly because canoe sterns are designed to avoid that.
Charles

[oceandancer]

Hi All,

My 1974 Mk1 lm27 definitely did not have a self draining cockpit. The cockpit sole is just a plywood structure and not watertight to the engine space. I fitted some drains with one way valves but you have to remember that the cockpit sole is only 5inches from the sea level. I have always been concerned about being pooped as the cockpit is by any standards very large, however, unless you use boards across the doors any appreciable water will go down into the boat rather than being contained aft,(the original design did not have doors anyway). It would then find it's way down into the engine sump by means of limber holes and a central drain.
For this reason I have fitted the largest automatic bilge pump that I can get in the sump, currently a 2000 gph model.

Regards

Mick

[stevespring]

I have a Mk 1 model from 1975 and it doesn't have a self draining cockpit either, just as described above by Oceandancer.

[Charles]

We seem to be the lucky ones, but how remarkable that LM should have altered their moulds between builds! So for those of you without our self-draining arrangement, how do you get rid of rainwater, cleaning water, accidental spillage from a bucket, etc?
Charles

[oceandancer]

Hi Charles,

I understand that there were a few changes whilst the MK1s were still in build. The chain locker lid was one (circular to triangular) and the cockpit sole moulding was another. I think also that the toilet compartment had a new floor moulding and perhaps the forward engine compartment bulkhead (I don't have one). Perhaps Jan may have more information on this?

I don't have any problem with rainwater as my cockpit canopy is always up when I'm not on the boat. Any rain whilst underway or other water spilled in the cockpit will find it's way into the engine compartment sump, hence my automatic bilge pump.

Regards

Mick

[stevespring]

My Mk 1 has the round anchor locker, and no bulkhead forward of the engine either. The cockpit tent stays up most of the time when not sailing, so rainwater ingress isn't an issue, and when sailing, any water that finds its' way into the cockpit and then below is dealt with by the bilge pump. Self draining would be nice to have, but so far (admittedly not long!) the lack of it hasn't been a problem (including a weekend sail in a Force 7 with following sea).

[Charles]

I have received the following from Leszek in the form of a message - next time Leszek, please go direct to the most appropriate board and post your question yourself.
As I understand it he has the same self-draining cockpit arrangement as I do and is concerned about water coming in up the drain pipe when he has lots of people on board. That is exactly what happened to me (see Overloaded LM 27 - a Cautionary Tale in the Ideas For Sharing section of this web site) and the simple truth, as I understand it, is that you cannot safely have more than 8 (or is it 6) people on board an LM 27.

But if I have missed the point, would someone else please reply appropriately to Leszek. Thanks
Charles

Hello

I have Lm 27 from 1979,in my cooling system (after the engine) the ruubber pipe going from thermostat to the cocpit drainage pipe and

turn back to metal elbow of exhaust tube.For this reason I must have all the time open drainage pipe,it is a problem when I have many people

on my boat because water going this way inside the boat.I saw few photos where this pipes going to the back of the boat but i dont know where.

In other type of boats with this same engine this pipe going directly to exhaust elbow only in LM is different system.Can someone explain me

why? and send me information (photos or schema)how system you have in yor boats.


Regards from Poland

Leszek

[Sula]

I can't quite follow what Leszek is describing. I'm no expert, but can't think of any sound reason for connecting the engine cooling to a cockpit drain, unless it's merely an outlet for a syphon break 'piddle pipe'. If that's the case, it wouldn't require the seacock to be left open once the engine had been stopped for a couple of minutes, and would also be easy enough to replace it with a valve type syphon break to avoid connecting to the drain at all.

With regard to the 'overload' issue, JanDane says (in the thread Charles refers to) the Norse Veritas type approval for the LM27 is for 6 persons.

[stevespring]

Sounds more like an anti syphon break than a cockpit drain. A hose is run from the engine to the aft end of the cockpit where a loop is placed (sometimes with a 'pee' hole going outside the hull on a small skin fitting. Water runs out this hole when the engine is running, but when the engine stops, air is allowed into it, therefore breaking any loop that may allow water to syphon back into the water injection elbow and from there into the cylinders. If the boat was overloaded, this hole could end up below the water line, and thus the air can't get into it to break the loop...

[tonyp]

Ours is a 1979 Mark 1 and has a self draining cockpit. There is a photo showing the layout  as Charles describes in the “Exhaust water lock” thread in my posting of 28 April ‘16. Presumably they did modify the cockpit mould.

Tony

[Sula]

Oct 16, 2017 19:42:40 GMT tonyp said:

Ours is a 1979 Mark 1 and has a self draining cockpit. There is a photo showing the layout  as Charles describes in the “Exhaust water lock” thread in my posting of 28 April ‘16. Presumably they did modify the cockpit mould.

Tony

Now I see!  The cockpit sole is completely different to that on my Mk 1 (also 1979) which simply has wooden boards on a wooden frame (and therefore any water can pass from cockpit to bilge or vice versa.   

This means the concerns I expressed a few posts back are misplaced (a little knowledge, etc.), and I'll try to edit accordingly.