Toilet Holding Tank Question.

[johnc]

Hi. I have recently bought an LM28 which appears to have a holding tank for the loo.  Was this an optional fittment when the boat was built.  The reason I think it was an LM builders fit is that the tank is the same colour of GRP as the water tank.  Looking at the pipework it looks as if everything goes through the holding tank.  There is a Jabco waste pump in the line but have not really sorted out the plumbing circuit. Can anyone advise if there is a circuit diagram and is there an option of discharging direct.

Thank you

[Brian & Glenda]

Our LM32, has the black water tank in the floor at the aft end of the forward V berth. Yes, everything goes directly from the toilet into the tank. There is no direct toilet to overboard connection. Just forward of tank, is a hatch under the mattress of the V berth, that when opened reveals the pump and a Y valve that can be opened in one direction to allow the pump to empty the tank by expelling the excrement out via a sea-cock (which on our LM32 is just forward of the tank and its pump ... stbd side, about two feet aft of the prow at the waterline, and four inches below the waterline); or if that Y valve is opened in the other direction, the pump is by-passed and the waste can be sucked up through a deck fitting into a marina's pump-out station.

Hope that helps! Welcome to LM's! If you want photos, let me know.

[johnc]

Thank you for your reply. I have been emptying the boat of 20 years of collecting "useful items" by the previous owner who sadly passed away earlier this year so I have not been able to go over the various systems in the boat. It appears that in our LM the system is simpler than you describe as there are no Y valves and no signs of a pump out port. However, during my time clearing the boat, I have come across two Y valves so it would seem as if this was a planned modification by the previous owner.

[Brian & Glenda]

Ah ha... the one Y valve would likely have been intended for the direct to sea / into tank option, while the other would likely be for the from tank to sea, or tank to deck pump-out fitting as described above. If you want more details or photos of what's on our boat, just let me know what you need to know.

Cheers,
Brian.

[chrismunson]

A couple of suggestions: Make sure the holding tank vent is completely clear, to avoid a pressure buildup that could split a seam. Use a biologic septic tank cleaner to dissolve the sludge layer. This could take several months if the tank dried out and the sludge hardened. Don't use deodorant additives, they kill the beneficial bacteria, as does the chlorine in tap water. A dose of septic tank bacteria additive after each pump out will keep the sludge down and eliminate smells. If the hoses are old, soft, sticky or stink, replace them all. Finally, sea or creek water have a lot of microorganisms that die under the rim of the bowl - this is the major cause of head odors. Rinse under the rim before each layup.

[jandane]

No LMs were factory fitted with holding tanks. In these days of the 70’s a toilet was something wild luxus. A black, acid resistant bucket on the front deck in the sun set was the most normal. When toilets were installed, at least in danish waters, no one cared about letting it out. Compared to a swan or a dolphin a human delivers very little. Later, we had rules about that. You have to be 2Nm from the coast to let out from the toilet....In harbours, it very fast became cotume not to use toilets, unless you had a holding tank and this was the beginning of the holding tank area. In danish waters, you are still allowed to let out human waste if 2 nm from the coast and onboard a vessel from before 1980 (I guess). All new ships have holding tanks and in most harbours today, you are able to have them emptied. My own holding tank is having an outlet to the sea I can close when in harbour. Use the toilet for night pissing and when at open sea again, opens the valve and feed the fish. In swedish waters, a holding tank is compulsory, if you have installed a permanent toilet! and no toilet waste is allowed to be let out. If you have NOT a toilet and you choose to shit in a bucket and haul it it is quite legal. The swedish boat owners assosiation made a calculation some years ago pointing out, that if ALL leisure boat owners were sailing every day and they all let out one portion of toiletwaste, it would have the same impact/amount as if ONE of the official waste water cleaning plants were hit by a thundershower once a year. Or, the amount would equal 1/1000 of the amount of swans in sweden.

[Sula]

I am reluctant to contradict someone so knowledgeable and helpful as jandane, but at least some the later series LMs were fitted with holding tanks (or at least it was an option), as can be seen from

- the listing of a 75 litre toilet tank and pump on page 20 of the LM30/LM32 brochure (I'm guessing the columns mean it was an option on the LM30 and standard on the LM32), here: lmowners.proboards.com/thread/140/original-lm-30-brochure-uploaded

- the reference to a 15 gallon holding tank in the Practical Sailor review quoted in this thread: lmowners.proboards.com/thread/255/lm-32-holding-tank

Although these references are to the LM30 &LM32, it would be surprising if there wasn't also an option for the LM28 built around the same time, especially given the matching colour of johnc's holding tank.

[Charles]

We had an RM69 25 litre buffer tank fitted to our LM27 Marguerite when we bought her. It does not require you to sacrifice a locker to a holding tank and is enough to allow you to overnight in a river without fouling the stream; you can pump it out next time you are in the open sea. It has done all we needed of it for 8 years.
See www.rm69.nl/buffertank/. I think there is also a larger version.
Charles

[Sula]

Charles, the type of RM69 holding tank you have used seems to be available once again. (I was previously interested, following an earlier post of yours, but at that time couldn't find anywhere advertising it.)

Is it an RM toilet you have used it with?

I have already bought, in the interim, a Jabsco Twist and Lock toilet to replace the ancient TMC on my LM27 which has a dicky pump, and I am in doubt about whether the RM69 tank will fit properly with the Jabsco. There is a question about this on one of the sellers' websites, and the answer (in German) seems to suggest that the Jabsco pump fouls the RM holding tank, but it's not clear how seriously.

[Charles]

John,
I don't think the type of toilet is important. We bought the RM 69 kit from a chandlery and handed it over to the firm who were making the mods we had asked for. They had just fitted a new off-the-shelf toilet to replace the rather fragile one that we had inherited, and I don't think they had any difficul in fitting the RM 69 to it. But I can't promise....
Charles